Rules and other source material

Discuss Wargames Factory's Rising Suns products.

Rules and other source material

Postby warfaror » 01 Apr 2014, 19:19

So what rule system or source material do you use to play and what options are out there for those of us obsessed with samurai?

I am not trying to advertise for anyone else but just get a little more interest in the Samurai army battles that wargames factory provides a great start to. But while you can field a complete army with their line there are some missing pieces that can be added later or from another games manufacturer. I am curious what rules people are using for feudal Japan large and small scale battles, what other manufacturers are you getting how do the look compared to each other that kind of thing. Also terrain for these battles.

I will start -
Wargames factory - can build a large army fast with their plastic kits - good historical references covering some popular time frames. As far as I am concerned best bang for the buck.
Kensei - (Spain) has free rules - some great miniatures to round out the rest of your army - can be a bit expensive but quality items - even plastcraft terrain.
Bushido GCT - (UK) also has free rules online to download - they are smaller skirmish based with more demon/supernatural influence but good looking miniatures and an improved battle system. Can be expensive per miniature.
Northstar (UK) - their miniature are shown along with Wargames factory in the Ronin book from Osprey - I got a copy under $15.00 at amazon and it has a solid system, not a ton of details but seems like a good intro.
Hassle free minis - have some martial artist minis, geisha, that type of thing - Japanese but not armored samurai
Steel first miniature (UK) - traditional samurai has own webstore (currently on kickstarter for a while https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/53 ... sekigahara)
Tales of war (UK) - has a few nice looking samurai inspired hero miniatures - based in UK
Reaper - has some solid ronin non armored and armored samurai
Perry - the original? metal samurai - seem a bit dated to me but solid designs
Old Glory - warrior monks, all kids of samurai - like Perry maybe dated looking but solid

Okko - discontinued game but still can get some great fantasy type undead Asian miniatures for a deal - solid skirmish board game rules too. Can use any of the above figures as stand ins.
Malifaux - honorable mention - undead samurai - nice sculpts
darkhammer miniatures (overseas) - another honorable mention - fantasy demon type samurai

Terrain
http://www.4ground.com - awesome prepained laser cut peasant houses (based in UK)
http://www.plastcraftgames.com - peasant houses, bridges, small ronin house, pottery - cardboard (Spain)
http://www.renaissanceminiatures.com - recent kickstarter that will have great East Asian laser cut buildings for sale soon. (USA based)

I know I missed some stuff feel free to add on or correct anything here - these are just ones off the top of my head - there has got to be more out there. Maybe at some point we can post some pictures of some popular ones side by side for a scale comparison.
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Re: Rules and other source material

Postby mrinku » 01 Apr 2014, 21:06

warfaror, it's fair to discuss rulesets, but you mainly discuss rival miniature makers' ranges. That's not good form here. maybe head over the The Miniatures Page and start a thread there.

Rules do not equal miniatures, unless you're talking to a Games Workshop drone, especially for historicals.

I'm well behind in my own Japanese army plans (i.e. always wanted it, never started) but I do own and have played Warhammer Ancient battles, which seems a good enough set. DBA is quite popular.
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Re: Rules and other source material

Postby warfaror » 02 Apr 2014, 10:48

Fair enough, that is why I only included links to the terrain - which can be hard to find. But since there are no rules for the Rising Sun line (that I know of) what are you going to do with them? I think the plastic wargames factory Rising Sun line can be used in free rule systems out there (Kensei). I originally was thinking I would adapt the samurai army for Warhammer Fantasy and use it like a proxy army - but the Ancient Battles book does outline a solid army.

One could definitely use the plastic kits to make a 7 samurai band of heroes for a skirmish game with whatever rule systems plays best (Bushido, even Malifaux). Osprey's Ronin system being my front runner, but I have yet to work out all the details. Just not a lot of people playing feudal Japan armies these days.

Maybe a plastic line of Chinese for them to fight could increase popularity too, right now I guess you just have Japanese clans fight each other.

I would think wargames factory would understand they are not going to have every type of warrior: peasants, monks, ninja, fantasy type that might not have broad enough appeal. What is appealing is a solid historical line that you can amass a large army out of one box for a very good value. I look forward to more kits and even other factions for the Rising Sun to fight.
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Re: Rules and other source material

Postby mrinku » 02 Apr 2014, 17:13

Yes, although as it stands right now the Rising Sun line is very good to cover most of the period it's designed for, which is the Sengoku period. The Korean expedition and Edo period are covered by the same models, but the vast majority of fighting these guys saw historically was against each other. You could convert them for earlier (i.e. pre-gunpowder) eras like the Gempei war or Mongol invasions, but the armour is a bit different. Probably the only real lack are naginata as a weapon option (there is *one* on the cavalry sprue), although this is somewhat understandable as the use was declining with the switch to long spears and muskets. Still, it does seem odd that at least one was not put on the foot samurai sprue.

Having said that, Chinese and Korean kits would be welcome, and there is scope for Ikko-Ikki, which would include monks and armed peasants to supplement the normal samurai and ashigaru (who still made up the bulk of the fighters in that rebellion). An Ikko-Ikki kit might even have space for a priest...

(And a few more naginata :) )
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Re: Rules and other source material

Postby Highlandsamurai » 06 Apr 2014, 13:54

most likely expansion to the samurai line aside from Koreans and Chinese (which would be more than welcome as I for one would probably buy 10+ of each box) would be warrior monks and that would necessitate numerous naginata. The other thing I would like to see would be a box of lighter armoured Samurai for use as ronin or in later periods. As for earlier it would be pretty much impossible to use the figures made for anything prior to the 16th century as the armour supplied is clearly from the later half of that century.
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Re: Rules and other source material

Postby mrinku » 07 Apr 2014, 00:44

Not impossible. Just requiring some serious conversion work. I have enough source materials that I know what's involved. and since the earlier armours were boxier and bulkier, it's more easily done than the reverse.

I may take that as a challenge, even though any army I make would probably be Sengoku.
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Re: Rules and other source material

Postby bvandewalker » 07 Apr 2014, 14:10

warfaror wrote:Fair enough, that is why I only included links to the terrain - which can be hard to find. But since there are no rules for the Rising Sun line (that I know of) what are you going to do with them? I think the plastic wargames factory Rising Sun line can be used in free rule systems out there (Kensei). I originally was thinking I would adapt the samurai army for Warhammer Fantasy and use it like a proxy army - but the Ancient Battles book does outline a solid army.


WGF sets can give your L5R Clan Wars army normal infantry (once one gets the rules), if I ever play warhammer I have an army of Nippon, older D&D rules, and of course there is always history gaming. there are several free rules online as well if you look around.

The reason I bought some, was to represent one of the main good guy factions in a fantasy game I was making. You can always make your own game too.
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Re: Rules and other source material

Postby bvandewalker » 14 Jul 2014, 15:26

I recently received an email from War of Life Gaming about an eventual feudal Japanese expansion for their Empires Colossus rule set. They are in the beta test faze for it right now, here take a look :


http://www.wargamevault.com/product/131 ... rs_id=5603


edit: I just noticed this:

mrinku wrote: Probably the only real lack are naginata as a weapon option (there is *one* on the cavalry sprue), although this is somewhat understandable as the use was declining with the switch to long spears and muskets. Still, it does seem odd that at least one was not put on the foot samurai sprue.



Actually, I have heard that the women of the samurai class kept the art naginata fighting alive and well right up to the Meiji revolution for self defense and repelling castle invaders (since the options during a siege were fighting to the death or suicide for the ladies).
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