Asian firearms question

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Asian firearms question

Postby bvandewalker » 17 Apr 2014, 02:07

A while back I watched this Korean costume drama about King Sejong and this assassin had this dart shooting matchlock pistol with a metal pistol grip as opposed to the wand grip I see on the Wikipedia for similar Ming Chinese guns.

So the question is did the Koreans have Pistol grip hand guns or is that just the TV land?

(note: I have been told that the Korean History dramas are fairly accurate when it comes to costumes and props.)
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Re: Asian firearms question

Postby Luoshangzhi » 17 Apr 2014, 08:57

bvandewalker wrote:A while back I watched this Korean costume drama about King Sejong and this assassin had this dart shooting matchlock pistol with a metal pistol grip as opposed to the wand grip I see on the Wikipedia for similar Ming Chinese guns.

So the question is did the Koreans have Pistol grip hand guns or is that just the TV land?

(note: I have been told that the Korean History dramas are fairly accurate when it comes to costumes and props.)



Sounds more TV land than reality. Even so, when I get to my desktop, I'll see what I can turn up... 8-)
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Re: Asian firearms question

Postby wmyers » 08 May 2014, 16:24

Well, Sejong apparently lived May 15, 1397 – April 8, 1450. I would have doubts about the pistol grip during this time period - HOWEVER - without proof against it I, as an historian, could not claim outright it is false. One would have to examine period examples to ensure a correct answer.

Dart shooting could very well be accurate. Medieval Europe apparently used dart firing cannons in the early 1300s:
Image

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Re: Asian firearms question

Postby bvandewalker » 10 May 2014, 01:05

And the Chinese had gunpowder way before that, They even made the first personal firearms (fire lances). So you'd think the their neighbors would have some firearm advances, But it is Asia. :roll:

If it helps any the pistols were used by spies in the show.
Last edited by bvandewalker on 13 Aug 2014, 01:05, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Asian firearms question

Postby mrinku » 10 May 2014, 03:02

It seems pretty well established that the matchlock was a European invention, introduced to both China and Japan by the Portuguese. Korea appears to have adopted Japanese designs after the invasion.
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Re: Asian firearms question

Postby bvandewalker » 26 Aug 2014, 12:15

mrinku wrote:It seems pretty well established that the matchlock was a European invention, introduced to both China and Japan by the Portuguese. Korea appears to have adopted Japanese designs after the invasion.


after awhile moiling over wither or not the Asian guns I have seen count as matchlocks, I came to decision. Given that they use the same mechanism (a match cord) as the european matchlocks, I can safely say that that you are wrong since the Chinese were using things like these at least since the 14th century and probably even earlier like the tenth ccentury:

Image

this is almost exactly what I saw in the drama except that it had a curved metal handle (it looked as if it was made one piece of metal) it was used as an assassination weapon in the show, and that design was the one used through out for gun, also guns played an important roll for the Goryo rebels plans.

the ming solders had several guns on polls that they used before europeans really came into the picture, the most popular of which was a three barraled monstrosity. The real advantage the Portuguese traders brought was that their firearms were less bulky and easier to aim.

here have a few links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huolongjing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand_cannon
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Re: Asian firearms question

Postby mrinku » 30 Aug 2014, 15:18

Match cord <> match *lock*.

The lock mechanism is definitely a European innovation. If the one in the show had a trigger mechanism that dropped the match into a pan, it was an anachronism. If the firer touched a loose match to a touch hole, it would have been authentically Asian.
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Re: Asian firearms question

Postby bvandewalker » 30 Aug 2014, 19:06

mrinku wrote:Match cord <> match *lock*.

The lock mechanism is definitely a European innovation. If the one in the show had a trigger mechanism that dropped the match into a pan, it was an anachronism. If the firer touched a loose match to a touch hole, it would have been authentically Asian.


It was the later, didn't know they were considered different categories of firearm :oops: .
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Re: Asian firearms question

Postby mrinku » 06 Sep 2014, 14:34

Oh yes. With a lock mechanism you have the massive advantage of holding the stock with both hands and the subsequent improvement in aim. It's probably that as much as anything that killed off the use of crossbows, which were the weapon with that advantage previously.
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Re: Asian firearms question

Postby Luoshangzhi » 30 Jun 2015, 23:19

Handgun:


Image

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Matchlock:

Image

Image

Image


And to the next level before the introduction of the "firelock" (aka, flintlock) musket, I give you the Wheellock:


Image

Image
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