Gladiators

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Re: Gladiators

Postby bvandewalker » 07 May 2015, 22:47

Well, the main reason for a set of gladiators, without any fluff for a particular rule set, is skirmish gaming and the big problem with skirmish gaming for plastic sets is the number of sales, if you are lucky a skirmish gamer well pick up a second set, but on average they are probably just going to buy one set.

If we were talking metals this would be a great idea, but as a plastic set its risky at best from a sales point of view, this is also the big problem with the adventurers, which if anything are even more risky, (like 3x more risky at least :roll: ), and to be honest, it is surprising the survivor sets are doing as well as they are for the same reason even though they are a really good/cool sets (makes me wonder what the common reason for buying them is).


edit: not saying there shouldn't be plastic gladiators, just that they need a real good sales gimmick.
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Re: Gladiators

Postby Lord_Bryon » 08 May 2015, 07:32

I think the number of potential buyers rises with skirmish games. I think this is why the trend seems to be more skirmish games than ever before. I think I'd have a much easier time convincing a friend who is mildly interested in the hobby to spend $25 on a box of gladiators so he can train and have his own stable in a gladiator style skirmish game vs. talking the same friend in to spending $100's on mini's for a mass battle system.

I may be naïve but I think that there are a lot of people who have an interest in the hobby but stay on the outside looking in because they are not willing to make a large financial commitment to build an army. I think skirmish gaming is a fair and easy compromise. The interested newbie can get in and out of the game and risk only $40 or so total. Of course if the noob enjoys his experience then he will more likely get hooked much as we are and spend every extra penny he can get his fingers on towards projects and games.
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Re: Gladiators

Postby Luoshangzhi » 12 May 2015, 01:42

Lord_Bryon wrote:I think the number of potential buyers rises with skirmish games. I think this is why the trend seems to be more skirmish games than ever before. I think I'd have a much easier time convincing a friend who is mildly interested in the hobby to spend $25 on a box of gladiators so he can train and have his own stable in a gladiator style skirmish game vs. talking the same friend in to spending $100's on mini's for a mass battle system.

I may be naïve but I think that there are a lot of people who have an interest in the hobby but stay on the outside looking in because they are not willing to make a large financial commitment to build an army. I think skirmish gaming is a fair and easy compromise. The interested newbie can get in and out of the game and risk only $40 or so total. Of course if the noob enjoys his experience then he will more likely get hooked much as we are and spend every extra penny he can get his fingers on towards projects and games.




Bingo! 8-)
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Re: Gladiators

Postby Jack007 » 12 May 2015, 18:43

Bryon,
I'd say you 'hit the button'. For myself, even though I still have an entire unopened box of Zulu's, when working on any project, I find myself wondering, 'what other shield or uniform pattern I could come up with?" They are just 'Fun' to build and I have yet to put even one of the 60 completed on the table. :D

I think the, a Gladiator set could be a great way to 'get those interested" to try it out, perhaps become regular gamers/customers.
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Re: Gladiators

Postby bvandewalker » 13 May 2015, 04:12

I still think it is unwise for a plastic company to rely on a Skirmish games for selling sets, unless they are selling said set at $2-$10 a figure (basically Reaper to GW prices), which to me just negates the need for a plastic set particularly if we are talking popular skirmish historical types like gladiators or really popular skirmish fantasy type like European style adventurers since there are already tons of metals (which is the real cheap way to do skirmishing figures for a company) and per painted minis (for the inpatient buyers) that are already out there.

Also if skirmish gaming is truly good for 28mm plastic sets than why haven't any of the big boys (Perry, Warlord, Victrix, etc.) been doing such sets all along? Wouldn’t Gladiators already have been done in 28mm plastic by now? :|

Well now that I got my devil’s advocate points out of the way, I do think gladiators be a good set idea, but WGF should under no circumstances limit its selling point of a plastic set to skirmish or RPG gaming since that is tantamount to madness without good market research to back it up, and since this isn’t Sparta being crazy does not seem to be a wise move (although being crazy didn’t really work out for the Spartans either). :P

What WGF needs to do is sell them in a reasonable all across the board manner like this;

GLADIATORS: Armored slave warrior figures for history and fantasy war gaming or diorama.

Emblazoned on the front of the box in big red letters (maybe throw in multi pose before either ‘Armored’ or ‘figures’) with a cool diorama picture of the figures and on the back have pics showing them being used for both skirmish and mass combat games (on both square and circle bases so that WGF is not obligated provide bases with the set) and have a brief description of historical gladiators along with suggestions for use (like Spartacus’ revolt army, armored slave levy for a fantasy race like dark elves or kobolds in addition to the obvious skirmish gaming uses) and a simple contents description (number of bodies, how many of each gender, and wither or not the set contains bases).
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Re: Gladiators

Postby Lord_Bryon » 13 May 2015, 08:10

I think gladiators would make for an awesome proxy for Chaos Marauders. But I agree that the market research has to be done properly. Then again I almost spent $30 bucks on a single plastic WarJack for Warmachine (As far as I can tell a skirmish game) this weekend. I'm very tempted to get into that game but even in plastic it's price is prohibitive for me, yet there are many other gamers more than happy to fork over $100's of dollars on their Warmachine/Hordes units. I'm certain that quality models with a quality rule set sold at an affordable price point would be successful.

And to your point above. Your argument against a skirmish game using plastic miniatures seems to be based solely on the fact that none of the other guys are doing it. Maybe being the first is a good thing. A chance to seize the initiative and grab hold of a big chunk of the market share.

On that note I think Gripping beast has made a large number of plastic kits geared towards the SAGA game which I admit I haven't played or even looked through the ruleset but from the blogosphere posts I've read the game seems to be a skirmish game rather than a mass battle system. And I don't think Gripping beast is suffering for supplying the minis in plastic. In fact it must be going well because they have released kits after their initial foray into Vikings.
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Re: Gladiators

Postby 1classybadger » 13 May 2015, 08:41

in fairness, warmachine only THINKS its a skrimish game. at the point I'm at (35 point matches going on 50) it becomes more of a mass battle game.

Gripping beasts minis, while they are geared towards saga (one box'll get you multipule warbands actually) they are also usable for Hail ceaser or any other historical wargame set in the early middle ages.
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Re: Gladiators

Postby Jack007 » 13 May 2015, 15:17

Gladiators would be useful for FOG, skirmish and as you mentioned (I didnt even think of) as proxy for fantasy Chaos forces. kudo's. But in the long run I have to admit they do seem to be a long shot at best.

I too became interested in Warmachine soon after it was released, even thougth they first were in lead. I had intended to stay with the game, but as Bryon mentioned, it quickly became apparent, cost per 'machine' were going to make it simply out of reach in a very short time. So that ended that.
From time to time I still check on the latest releases. Generally Im not a 'big fighting robot' fan, perhaps its the steampunk-ish touch (the steam engine) that gets my attention. And the fact they are now done in plastic, always more fun and usualy much eaiser to work with, makes it more tempting. However..
"The soul is wiling, but the wallet is weak." ;)
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