Micro scale Capitol space ships

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Micro scale Capitol space ships

Postby Rick » 08 May 2014, 10:51

Not sure if this has been requested, but I'd like to see a line of Microscale Capitol space ships, I feel this market is still under appreciated and not many of them out there.
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Re: Micro scale Capitol space ships

Postby bvandewalker » 08 May 2014, 11:28

It has been mentioned before, but not sure WGF will do anything about it at this time since the preference is for 1/56 and 1/100 scale models.
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Re: Micro scale Capitol space ships

Postby Rick » 08 May 2014, 12:25

I'd like to see something along the line of 1/2400 or 1/3600 scale micro ships, this way you can have some seriously big ship combat.
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Re: Micro scale Capitol space ships

Postby Lord_Bryon » 08 May 2014, 12:52

I'd buy fleets of these. Currently I've been playing spartan games firestorm armada with cardboard cutouts of the ships. I really don't want to fork over the money for resin models. My son and I play using imaginary galactic empires so the ship design doesn't even need to resemble the current stock spartan games sells. But I'd much rather have legit hard plastic models than the cheezy cardstock, cardboard ships we use now. We've attempted to kitbash a few ships from old model plane/armor/and warship models with some success but it's a lot of work.
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Re: Micro scale Capitol space ships

Postby Rick » 08 May 2014, 12:58

Lord_Bryon wrote:I'd buy fleets of these. Currently I've been playing spartan games firestorm armada with cardboard cutouts of the ships. I really don't want to fork over the money for resin models. My son and I play using imaginary galactic empires so the ship design doesn't even need to resemble the current stock spartan games sells. But I'd much rather have legit hard plastic models than the cheezy cardstock, cardboard ships we use now. We've attempted to kitbash a few ships from old model plane/armor/and warship models with some success but it's a lot of work.



yeah that's what I mean there are gobs upon gobs of rules for Capitol ship wars, but the models are few and far between and are either resin or metal and very expensive due to rarity, if WGF was able to make cheap miniatures they would make a killing on them.
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Re: Micro scale Capitol space ships

Postby Lonnie » 08 May 2014, 14:33

Having worked to successfully resurrect Battlefleet Gothic back in 2002 (I spearheaded the effort to get sales going in the states from a low of about $50,000/year to over $2,000.000 with an outlay of just $35,000) I can tell you that I have more than just a fondness for space games but in order for us to justify making micro-scale space ships we would either have to produce them for someone else (they would have to pay us to do their molds up front in cash) of for us to have a game which sells boxes by the bucket load (we need a good rate of return). The rules have to drive the miniature sales which is something that you don't really see. BFG came closest (having seen the P & L statements I felt pretty good about our efforts) but even it could have been much better.

One alternative is we sell one battleship for $30 to $40, one cruiser for $25 to $30 and support ships for three for $25. With that we'd need to sell about 1,500 to 2,000-sets of each to break even. This is the kind of numbers GW was selling of BFG in the US and Canada combined during its height. If you're looking for us to do well-made, cheap space ships don't hold your breath.

Another alternative would be for some rules company like Full Thrust or Firestorm Armada to pay us for molds and have us make miniatures for them. I, for one, would love to work with the FSA people on their ranges.
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Re: Micro scale Capitol space ships

Postby Lord_Bryon » 08 May 2014, 15:20

Lonnie wrote:Another alternative would be for some rules company like Full Thrust or Firestorm Armada to pay us for molds and have us make miniatures for them. I, for one, would love to work with the FSA people on their ranges.


This would be a great match. WGF and FSA. I found the FSA rules at a 2nd hand book store and have been playing ever sense. The ships that the FSA guys produce are really cool, but as noted before I don't want to fork over the $$ for em. Bring the cost to about half and I'm all in.
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Re: Micro scale Capitol space ships

Postby Rick » 09 May 2014, 08:01

Lonnie wrote:Having worked to successfully resurrect Battlefleet Gothic back in 2002 (I spearheaded the effort to get sales going in the states from a low of about $50,000/year to over $2,000.000 with an outlay of just $35,000) I can tell you that I have more than just a fondness for space games but in order for us to justify making micro-scale space ships we would either have to produce them for someone else (they would have to pay us to do their molds up front in cash) of for us to have a game which sells boxes by the bucket load (we need a good rate of return). The rules have to drive the miniature sales which is something that you don't really see. BFG came closest (having seen the P & L statements I felt pretty good about our efforts) but even it could have been much better.

One alternative is we sell one battleship for $30 to $40, one cruiser for $25 to $30 and support ships for three for $25. With that we'd need to sell about 1,500 to 2,000-sets of each to break even. This is the kind of numbers GW was selling of BFG in the US and Canada combined during its height. If you're looking for us to do well-made, cheap space ships don't hold your breath.

Another alternative would be for some rules company like Full Thrust or Firestorm Armada to pay us for molds and have us make miniatures for them. I, for one, would love to work with the FSA people on their ranges.



Hated Battle Fleet Gothic for the mere fact the ships were flying Cathedrals from the looks of them, seriously the way overdid the Gothic theme, as to the miniatures i'm talking about, i'm not talking huge monstrous ships, but ships the size of 1"-2" maybe even some at 3", something people can use on a star chart hex grid for Capitol ship battles and such.
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Re: Micro scale Capitol space ships

Postby Lonnie » 09 May 2014, 10:44

That wouldn't change the price point though.

BFG aesthetics aside, in order for micro scale capitol ships to be viable for us we'd still have to sell 2 to 3-thousand of EACH set we produce or charge double the amount for selling half as many.

I believe that there may be some confusion on how big the ships would be. At 1:3600 scale, a ship the size of the USS Sulaco (Aliens) at 385-meters would end up being 107mm in length (4.2-inches). The Sulaco was classified as a light assault ship. If that was a light assault ship, how big would a battleship be? Certainly too big to fit onto a standard hex base.

I'm thinking we would fit 3-4 Sulaco sized ships in a box (should we pursue this idea). So we'd need probably 2-battleships, 4-cruisers, 4 to 8 distroyers/frigates, 2-carriers per force we make. Now we could, maybe, get all of the variations in one box using a method similar to BFG's plastics. And we'd need at least 1-opposing faction. That's 8-sprues minimum we're talking about. The cost to us vs. the expected ROI based on us not having a set of rules to push the miniatures range just doesn't add up to a good business decision at this time.
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Re: Micro scale Capitol space ships

Postby Rick » 09 May 2014, 10:58

Lonnie wrote:That wouldn't change the price point though.

BFG aesthetics aside, in order for micro scale capitol ships to be viable for us we'd still have to sell 2 to 3-thousand of EACH set we produce or charge double the amount for selling half as many.

I believe that there may be some confusion on how big the ships would be. At 1:3600 scale, a ship the size of the USS Sulaco (Aliens) at 385-meters would end up being 107mm in length (4.2-inches). The Sulaco was classified as a light assault ship. If that was a light assault ship, how big would a battleship be? Certainly too big to fit onto a standard hex base.

I'm thinking we would fit 3-4 Sulaco sized ships in a box (should we pursue this idea). So we'd need probably 2-battleships, 4-cruisers, 4 to 8 distroyers/frigates, 2-carriers per force we make. Now we could, maybe, get all of the variations in one box using a method similar to BFG's plastics. And we'd need at least 1-opposing faction. That's 8-sprues minimum we're talking about. The cost to us vs. the expected ROI based on us not having a set of rules to push the miniatures range just doesn't add up to a good business decision at this time.



True the Sulaco though is a huge ship to begin with, but say ships like the defiant from startrek would be about 1.2" in size, but a galaxy class ship would be over 6" in length, meanwhile a star destroyer would be 1'4" in length, but the scale could be done higher at say 1/4800 which would reduce the Sulaco to about 3" and so on. or could even scale higher for bigger ships, as it goes I feel there is a big market for basic large space ships in micro scale form since they are seriously lacking in the field.
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