Robed Cultists--Alien Suns, Dark Futures, Myths & Legends!

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Re: Robed Cultists--Alien Suns, Dark Futures, Myths & Legend

Postby robbie038 » 24 Jun 2015, 04:58

those roped figures could also serve as victoms for the Vikings and Saxons be raided in their monastary with a bible from one the apocalyptic sets in their hand , perhaps to that end they could also include a few Chalices or Crucifixes on one of the sprues
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Re: Robed Cultists--Alien Suns, Dark Futures, Myths & Legend

Postby Lord_Bryon » 24 Jun 2015, 08:14

robbie038 wrote:those roped figures could also serve as victoms for the Vikings and Saxons be raided in their monastary with a bible from one the apocalyptic sets in their hand , perhaps to that end they could also include a few Chalices or Crucifixes on one of the sprues


Excellent idea. Bibles, Chalices, and Crucifixes multiply the usefulness of this proposal.
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Re: Robed Cultists--Alien Suns, Dark Futures, Myths & Legend

Postby bvandewalker » 24 Jun 2015, 21:12

Lord_Bryon wrote:
robbie038 wrote:those roped figures could also serve as victoms for the Vikings and Saxons be raided in their monastary with a bible from one the apocalyptic sets in their hand , perhaps to that end they could also include a few Chalices or Crucifixes on one of the sprues


Excellent idea. Bibles, Chalices, and Crucifixes multiply the usefulness of this proposal.


No, well chalices maybe and I suppose we could included a non descript plastic codex style book that can be used for most sacred/magical texts in the cultist set, but WGF really shouldn't put Christian paraphernalia in a box with a sacrificial alter and human sacrifice to some elder RPG god of evil since that would be viewed as offense by some potential buyers (and not just the ones you are thinking of :lol: ), particularly if they aren't going to do an Islamic terrorist box because it would offend the Muslims who are less likely to be major buyers because they have a religious reason for not buying plastic minis since they are "graven images."

Although we can put Crucifixes elsewhere like in the fantasy strelets set, that way we could have both orthodox and catholic crucifixes in the same set since we where planning to dual use them for polish vampire thralls anyway having some of each in the set isn't a bad idea and we could add some clergy head swaps maybe (I am not really sure on that one, I would have to look at the historical outfits).
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Re: Robed Cultists--Alien Suns, Dark Futures, Myths & Legend

Postby Lord_Bryon » 25 Jun 2015, 07:39

They should include the Christian symbolism. The kit could be marketed as monks / cultists. Some gamers could use them as pilgrims to the holy city or other crusades types. They can be used in almost any era as Catholic monks more or less wore the same garb for centuries. Painting them up and using them as cultists for the elder gods is up to the modeler.
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Re: Robed Cultists--Alien Suns, Dark Futures, Myths & Legend

Postby Strawhat » 25 Jun 2015, 20:01

I do not see anything gained by using real religious iconography, but a good chance of rankling many.

Crosses are easy enough to paint (as are many other symbols) so long as there are some appropriate blank spaces on any large tomes or medallions worn.
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Re: Robed Cultists--Alien Suns, Dark Futures, Myths & Legend

Postby bvandewalker » 26 Jun 2015, 01:50

Lord_Bryon wrote:They should include the Christian symbolism. The kit could be marketed as monks / cultists. Some gamers could use them as pilgrims to the holy city or other crusades types. They can be used in almost any era as Catholic monks more or less wore the same garb for centuries. Painting them up and using them as cultists for the elder gods is up to the modeler.


Yeaaa no, Strawhat is right, you really don't want to market it that way, that would tread on way too many toes. Listen I am a Christian, and while I won't be terribly offended* I know others who would (and yes some of them play D&D and could use a box of cultists) and that is just Christians. :roll:

There are quit few people in the tabletop gaming world from small minority faiths**, and some of them are a bit... touchy, or may ask "why isn't my (insert religious icon here) also included? "

Atheists may be a problem as well since they often are touchy: "you included a crucifix in my box of evil cultists! This is (insert expletive) blasphemy!”

Of course Atheists may also find it hilarious as heck (if they have sense of humor and aren’t offend by the mere sight of Christian symbols in any context), but they will probably still ask "why isn't (insert fake D&D religious icon here :lol: ) also included? "

Which another problem WGF just can't put in all the religious icons out there (real and imaginary), and certain individuals might find that is “unfair” that there is a crucifix and not a, oh let’s say Thor hammer charm or some other mystical symbol that is important to their particular religion (which one may never have heard of before :shock: ). ***

For the cultists set WGF shouldn’t use real world religious imagery at all, just generic fantasy cultist imagery, light Cthulhuain at the most thematic. Besides how badly do we really need victim monks, dioramas builders aren’t the main market for “Wargames Factory" after all (although WGF minis would make for some darn fine diorama fodder since they are pretty poseable 8-) ).

That all said, WGF could do some neutral scenery bits like non-descript books and chalices and perhaps even do a head swap or two with monk style haircuts since there are a few made up RPG cults that have that hair style (personally I would prefer straight skinhead bald head swaps, and I believe the Saxon box does already monk style haircut head swap).

If WGF really wants to do a crucifix they should probably do it elsewhere, like maybe in some of the Vodkain sets since they are going to be fighting vampires and part of the reason I originally proposed them was duel use for both fantasy and history so crucifix wouldn’t be out of place at all there. In the meantime you might be able to make a crucifix out of the left over spur plastic in most sets (in fact I ought to try that myself ;) ). As to everything else Strawhat is exactly right, if want to convert your evil cultists to servants of Christ, the proper paint job is the main thing.

*I actually know what the word "cult" means and more importantly I come from a family of con going geeks, spirit filled geeks perhaps but geeks. Plus I understand your reasons for wanting to do it this way, but it really just shouldn't be done, it’s not wise.

** I just didn't want to list all of them, there are too many. Quit a few of them actually resemble the classic D&D style cultists somewhat when it comes to rituals (minus the physical human sacrifice part of course :lol: ).

***yes people like that do exist, I have met quit a few over my life time.
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Re: Robed Cultists--Alien Suns, Dark Futures, Myths & Legend

Postby Lord_Bryon » 26 Jun 2015, 07:27

I know that those people exist but I think you're grossly overestimating the size and scope of the gamer population. I admit that I may be underestimating it. I find that the extremes are the exception not the rule. I can't be persuaded that it would make any difference in sales whether or not Christian crosses are included or excluded. I'm guessing the overwhelming majority wouldn't care and since we want to sell to the majority why make a fuss for a few fanatics. Additionally bad press isn't always a bad thing, at least people are talking about it. And when people talk information spreads and interest increases from both camps. I remember local Christian factions protesting the Harry Potter movies. Did that stop the Harry Potter movies from making a mint, I think not. If anything I'm guessing it inspired some to go and see the film just in spite of the protest.

I personally don't care if it has crucifixes or 8 pointed stars of chaos, or tentacles effigies of the great cathulu. So I won't continue the debate.
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Re: Robed Cultists--Alien Suns, Dark Futures, Myths & Legend

Postby bvandewalker » 26 Jun 2015, 18:56

Lord_Bryon wrote:I know that those people exist but I think you're grossly overestimating the size and scope of the gamer population. I admit that I may be underestimating it. I find that the extremes are the exception not the rule. I can't be persuaded that it would make any difference in sales whether or not Christian crosses are included or excluded. I'm guessing the overwhelming majority wouldn't care and since we want to sell to the majority why make a fuss for a few fanatics. Additionally bad press isn't always a bad thing, at least people are talking about it. And when people talk information spreads and interest increases from both camps. I remember local Christian factions protesting the Harry Potter movies. Did that stop the Harry Potter movies from making a mint, I think not. If anything I'm guessing it inspired some to go and see the film just in spite of the protest.


I personally don't care if it has crucifixes or 8 pointed stars of chaos, or tentacles effigies of the great cathulu. So I won't continue the debate


Let me be a bit clearer, the Puritanical fanatics (like the ones who protested Harry potter and D&D) would normally be against even making an evil cultist set in the first place (nobody cares about their opinions too much), but something that even suggests that Christianity itself is an evil cult would be boycotted to death (if not the company itself) by pretty much everyone who normally goes to church and that is a big part of majority no matter what poll you are looking at (Yeah media projects that openly attack Christianity as whole rarely make their money back here in the states :| ).

Basically it is one thing to sell a slightly controversial* set, it is quite another to propose something that can be misconstrued as an out and out no holds bared attack on a major world religion (which is what "monk/evil" cultist set sounds like when first hear it). :lol:

*if one count Conan the barbarian as controversial that is :lol:
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Re: Robed Cultists--Alien Suns, Dark Futures, Myths & Legend

Postby Lord_Bryon » 28 Jun 2015, 09:53

I guess I'm missing the connection. How is a set of toys implying that Christianity is a cult? Generic robed miniatures can be used for a multitude of purposes. I'm sure that many modelers would use the robed monks as clergy men in historical settings. If for some reason you think including Christian iconography with the set implies that Christianity is an evil cult then maybe you're right. Some people miss interpret everything.
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Re: Robed Cultists--Alien Suns, Dark Futures, Myths & Legend

Postby Jack007 » 28 Jun 2015, 13:31

Just quick thought guys..

But I think its safe to say that in this day and age, in order to protect the profit line (the Nature of Business) NO company is going to produce or market practically anything that could 'offend / upset' anyone.

So other than a few guys in long robes and hoods, IMHO.. its pretty much a moot point and discussion.
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