Chinese

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Chinese

Postby Imho » 03 Jun 2015, 02:09

While assembling my Ashigarus I thought about some historical opponents, and as already mentioned in this forum chinese troops would be a possibility. As the WGF miniatures are coming from China, a question (or three) came to my mind: is there any wargaming in today´s China, and wouldn´t that be a huge market for rather cheap plastic miniatures like WGFs minis? Or would that be political incorrect over there?

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Re: Chinese

Postby zedeyejoe » 03 Jun 2015, 09:51

I don't think the Chinese government would be keen on wargaming. Indeed traditionally the Chinese were not keen on the military. They have a saying "Better to turn good iron into nails than a son into a soldier". Snooker is the thing. At night snooker tables are brought down in bits from apartments, reassembled in the street and those not playing, stand around and watch.

On a trip to Beijing I was able to visit the military museum of the Chinese Peoples Revolution. Safe to say it has a Chinese view of the world, including the Hall of the War to Resist US Aggression and Aid Korea.

Best thing to fight Japanese with are other Japanese.
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Re: Chinese

Postby mrinku » 03 Jun 2015, 19:22

The various Japanese wars against the Mongols, Koreans and Ming Chinese don't seem to be quite as popular as the Samurai themselves. Japanese miniatures are sure sellers, Korean and Ming not so much.

Perry Miniatures have a nice line of metal Koreans that were made to be an opposing army for their metal Japanese, but I'm pretty sure they don't sell many compared to the latter. Ming Chinese are even harder to find, and Mongols almost impossible, though you'll likely have better luck in the smaller scales (15mm, 6mm).

The Ronin skirmish rules have Korean and Ming warbands, but even their associated line of miniatures from North Star haven't done them.
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Re: Chinese

Postby HalberKill » 03 Jun 2015, 19:44

Not to push something other than WGF, but Fireforge games has Steppe Warriors in plastic that include both Mongols and Koreans to fight your WGF Samurai units.

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Re: Chinese

Postby mrinku » 03 Jun 2015, 21:23

Nice tip, Halber! Somehow those had slipped under my radar - I knew about their Teutonic stuff but hadn't checked up on them lately.

I take it back then - Mongols are covered in 28mm, and even in plastic!
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Re: Chinese

Postby HalberKill » 04 Jun 2015, 16:00

And what's more the extra Korean heads you get in the Steppe Warrior set work well on WGF's Persian and Samurai bodies to make more Koreans, or Japanese Sohei respectively.

Though if WGF ever decided to make ancient Chinese, maybe even using scanned faces of their Chinese employees, it would make me extremely happy.

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Re: Chinese

Postby mrinku » 04 Jun 2015, 18:20

I'd have to see the models in the flesh, but the Steppe Warriors don't look very Korean to me. They'd be useful as the basis for conversion, but to be honest I'd likely just buy Perry Koreans if I was collecting those, since they're better models and only a bit cheaper. 24 plastic infantry Fireforge models list at £20, while the same in Perry metals are £28. The cavalry definitely interest me, though. They'd be suitable for a lot of purposes over a range of centuries.

There's a reverse availability issue for Mongols vs Japanese, as well - it's much harder to find Japanese models for the Mongol Invasion era, since most manufacturers cater to the Sengoku Jidai era of the 16thC.

The armour is quite different and no-one does them in 28mm plastic that I know of. You can get by with "reasonable substitution" but it will rankle many people, just as it would to sub in Napoleonic models for AWI (Hey, they're redcoats with muskets, what's you problem?).
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Re: Chinese

Postby zedeyejoe » 04 Jun 2015, 23:55

All I can say is that for years my Japanese decals were my worst selling line. Then the Ronin rules came along and sales have rocketed.
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Re: Chinese

Postby HalberKill » 05 Jun 2015, 16:20

mrinku wrote:I'd have to see the models in the flesh, but the Steppe Warriors don't look very Korean to me.
They have Korean subjugated warrior heads in addition to the standard Mongol heads on the sprue. The Koreans are the ones with the cloth head coverings in the picture below, which is an actual drawing from that time. The Mongols have those fur hats, and the Japanese are kicking the butt on a horse.

Image


mrinku wrote:The armour is quite different and no-one does them in 28mm plastic that I know of.

The make up of the armor was different, but the basic look was the same. The biggest difference is the helmets, which I got a set of metal heads with those helmets from somewhere.

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Re: Chinese

Postby bvandewalker » 06 Jun 2015, 04:03

Actually China might be potential market, after all girls play house while boys play war, and from what I can tell that is true no matter what culture they are in. ;)

I know that Korea has always viewed China as a very warlike nation and the martial arts are one of the main pillars of Chinese culture, plus they have that whole "All united under Heaven" thing, so while they may have a saying against war they certainly don't practice it. Even if they did, it shouldn't be real road block, after all one of the most significant growth periods in our little hobby here in the US happened just after the "sex not war" people where in full force back in the 60's and 70's, that's when good old Gygax got inspired to do D&D by playing his fantasy war games with friends....

:oops: Back on track, the real question for a Chinese market isn't cultural acceptance (if China's national pride is even half as strong as Korea's than yes there will be interest in dynastic minis made in their own country), as it is of disposable income, that may be a real problem.... or not, I have seen second hand GW stuff being sold by Chinese dealers, but I would want to check that thoroughly first, maybe see if there is a built up war gaming community. I know that Japan has a small but thriving tabletop gaming community, Russia had a cheap answer to WH40K in the form of Robo gear and back on the old forum we had some guys from Korea, so a direct from factory approach might not be a bad idea for that part of the world regardless, but I wouldn't know (what is needed is someone with real market research skills and who is knowledgeable about tariffs for that one). :lol:

On to a slightly different topic, I have heard of a new mass combat game for 16th century Japan called [url]Daisho[/url], it might have rules for Koreans and Ming, but Chinese, Korean and South East Asian history should have its own game rules, my recommendation on that front is that Watchful I Studio is cooking something up for the miniatures they got kickstarted.

If I where to pick two periods that would be awesome war games it would be Three Kingdoms Korea and post 14-16th century south east Asia (I could even have some rules for Japanese, believe it or not).

As to figures, to my knowledge if you want historic plastic sets of Chinese and Koreans the only scale they are available in currently is 1/72 (I was actually looking at them before I started to buy 28mms), that is also the only scale you will find Ming troops that are sold as Ming to my knowledge. However Perry's Koreans are dressed the same as their counter parts in Ming China, the only big difference will be the color scheme (I think :? ).

Besides Watchful I Studio's soon to be released stuff and Perry there are some other metal manufactures that have stuff for Asia:

Curteys miniatures has a wide array Chinese figures from many different time periods (no Ming though), but they are labeled as being 25mm which means I have no idea how they match up to WGF figures size wise. Cuteys also sells Burmese and Thai labeled as 28mm, 13th century mongol and samurai labeled as 25mm, Chinese pirates, and are the only people I know of to be selling Tibetans.

Renegade miniatures has warring state figures in 28mm.

Black hat has a bunch of non Japanese fantasy Asian miniatures for 28mm.

I know Wargames Foundry has stuff for the boxer rebellion, I think they may have some other things as well.

Pulp minis has figures for the boxer rebellion.

I think there are others but those I are the ones I know of for sure.
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