Product Line-Up Changes at WGF due to Warlord

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Product Line-Up Changes at WGF due to Warlord

Postby wmyers » 08 Aug 2015, 18:31

Regarding:
Paul wrote:Some answers to questions:


A: Warlord's Sales Team is currently reviewing our kits. I think there may be some that are discontinued, they may even reconfigure some of the kits. IE - merge kits into one, different sprue counts etc. Since they're taking over Sales and Marketing for WGF they'll be doing what they feel is best for sales.

The agreement does specify that they will distribute future kits that WGF produces. Technically Wargames Factory could produce more WWII kits, but I think its safe to say that you're going to see less kit overlap.



Let's be nice (NO Negative Nellies!) and try to speculate which set(s) WGF will have to eliminate and which ones will be changed.

I would start with the Zulu's and the British Colonial troops. Warlord makes their own in plastic in 28mm and reviews often state the Warlord ones are better.

Might of Rome: Roman Legion will probably be gone. Perhaps the Celts as well (foot, cavalry and chariots).

WWII - 15mm will stay. I do not know about the Americans, Germans and Russians, though. I think they are well sculpted kits, not nearly as versatile as the Warlord ones, though. I am not sure if Warlord will want them.

Sounds like Warlord likes the 'Dark Futures', 'Rev. War' and WSS sets. Also the Skeletons.
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Re: Product Line-Up Changes at WGF due to Warlord

Postby Tripod » 08 Aug 2015, 19:27

What will go? I suspect the following
All three 28mm ww2sets
Wars of empire british and Zulu
Legacy of the Greeks hoplites ,persian infantry,persian cavalry
Might of Rome ,probably all but the Numidians.
Hammer of the gods will depend on how Warlord are tied into a Gripping beasts range

I think the survivors will be
Dark futures
Horse and musket
Rising sun

But I suspect not for too long if they don't sell we'll.
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Re: Product Line-Up Changes at WGF due to Warlord

Postby bvandewalker » 08 Aug 2015, 19:44

Actually, I think they may keep the might of Rome sets since it actually represents a different period of Rome from the Warlord line of sets and they would be fools not to keep selling the Chariots (or trying to kill WGF), I mean they are worth it just for the conversion fodder (if you can't sell them as Celtic, make them into orc chariots or something). Just because you don't like the sculpts doesn't mean they will get the axe.

You are probably right about the Colonial troops and Zulus (I am going to have get those some other way). I don't know about the 28mm WWII figures but it doesn't look good for them since we are talking Warlords (although I have often wondered why WGF bothered with that period, I know it is one of the most important wars in history that changed everything, but it is covered by practically everyone).
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Re: Product Line-Up Changes at WGF due to Warlord

Postby zedeyejoe » 12 Aug 2015, 18:01

Well here in the UK I have noticed that the price of WGF boxes has gone up by £2 - £3 a box.

Yes I can see things which directly compete with Warlord Games going (Zulu War, WW2 range). But that still does leave quite a range figures.
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Re: Product Line-Up Changes at WGF due to Warlord

Postby wmyers » 13 Aug 2015, 01:47

In retrospect, I wonder if they would have those lines "go" - the reason I am thinking this is the potential to make money at selling them. As simple as a concept as that may seem (or simplistic, if that term works better) if Warlord is the exclusive distributor then they would get money for each one sold. As wargamers love to have variety in their troop types (especially skirmish gamers) the WW2 line might be a wise choice to keep. They are of a different style than any other makes so it is not like they would be pure competition as I am sure there are individuals who may not like the sculpting style - but then again, there are individuals, I am sure, who do not like the Warlords' style so would be more wiling to buy WGF sets and then use them to play the game systems and rules that Warlord/Osprey really promote.

Warlord is a marketing giant - they try really hard to get their merchandise out there and do a fair job at it! MUCH more so than any other maker of 28mm figures. (Obviously the reason Waikee decided for this merger - and a wise decision on his behalf - at least monetarily. And if this is his livelihood, I do not think any of us have a right to criticize his business decisions unless we are willing to compensate him personally for any potential losses - unless, of course, these business decisions involved the committing of mortal sins and seeing as how getting one company to distribute one's own goods is not, then we can only lament our own personal whinings about economic and aesthetic bemoanings.)

In short, maybe the WW2 line will stay and the Warlord will be smart and promote them not only as an opportunity to get new poses, but show potentials of "kit bashing" WGF and Warlord sets together can lead to even more possibilities thereby selling more of both lines' sets - as I believe a great many people who like the plastic figure sets are modellers at heart - those who only like metal are possibly more gamers/painters at heart.

However, as Zed Eye Joe, rightfully states, the prices will increase (even more) to be comparable to Warlord prices. There is no way they are going to allow a set of figures for 12 or 14 Pounds when others sets sell at 20 or 22 Pounds. It is a no-brainer as to which set one will buy.

Lonnie always lamented how he wished the WGF sets were being sold for the much higher rates of others'. Now, sadly, it will come true. Sadly for not only those consumers who prefer figures that are not over priced but also for Lonnie (and others) who lost their jobs and potentially could now get high incomes and have kept their positions.
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Re: Product Line-Up Changes at WGF due to Warlord

Postby zedeyejoe » 13 Aug 2015, 03:05

In retrospect, I wonder if they would have those lines "go" - the reason I am thinking this is the potential to make money at selling them. As simple as a concept as that may seem (or simplistic, if that term works better) if Warlord is the exclusive distributor then they would get money for each one sold.


Ah but they make more money from selling a product that they produce. So you are selling (lets say) a box of Zulus. Which one do you want to sell, yours or theirs? I think there is no contest.

Warlord is a marketing giant


No not really. They came into historical wargaming from GW and had the attitude "We know what we are doing, we used to work for GW". And I am afraid that got up the noses of many already in the historical wargames business.

They look big and glossy but in fact they hardly register on my radar. Only a few players that I know play their rules.

I used to sell Warlord product but the margin was small and the interest low, so I gave up on them. About 2 years ago I saw a lot of traders selling Warlord stuff at shows 3 for the price of 2. Now you hardly see any Warlord stuff at shows, unless Warlord happen to take a stand themselves (and there the marketing is poor). Mainly I see Warlord stuff in shops.

For distribution I think a better idea is to have a specialist distributor like North Star (as much as I hate Nick) as they have no conflict of interest. As for exclusive distribution you only give that if the distributor guarantees a minimum amount of sales (in fact in the EU it is probably illegal).

I have heard that now that traders are buying in the UK that they don't have to worry about import duties but sorry thats not the case either. Someone has to pay them, so thats Warlord. So they then slap on their markup on those duties, so again that increases the price of the product.

So thats the view from a UK wargames trader.
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Re: Product Line-Up Changes at WGF due to Warlord

Postby wmyers » 14 Aug 2015, 11:24

zedeyejoe wrote: Only a few players that I know play their rules.

I used to sell Warlord product but the margin was small and the interest low, so I gave up on them. About 2 years ago I saw a lot of traders selling Warlord stuff at shows 3 for the price of 2. Now you hardly see any Warlord stuff at shows, unless Warlord happen to take a stand themselves (and there the marketing is poor). Mainly I see Warlord stuff in shops.

For distribution I think a better idea is to have a specialist distributor like North Star (as much as I hate Nick) as they have no conflict of interest. As for exclusive distribution you only give that if the distributor guarantees a minimum amount of sales (in fact in the EU it is probably illegal).

I have heard that now that traders are buying in the UK that they don't have to worry about import duties but sorry thats not the case either. Someone has to pay them, so thats Warlord. So they then slap on their markup on those duties, so again that increases the price of the product.

So thats the view from a UK wargames trader.


I would love to know what rule sets clubs and enthusiasts are using. I have lots of rule sets from past decades and it was all about the rules - not about promoting a product for sale (i.e. Flames of War, Bolt Action, GW, Dust, Malifaux, etc, etc, etc).

I know there are many historical figure makers (metal) on the market. I also know a lot of players will not use plastics (delicacy, time consumption, weight, not-traditional, etc).
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Re: Product Line-Up Changes at WGF due to Warlord

Postby zedeyejoe » 14 Aug 2015, 16:05

Ah thats the thing, these days you have a set of rules to sell your figures (the GW model).

So Warlord have Bolt Action and Battlefront Flames of War. About half of all WW2 games I see are Flames of War. The others a mix with Bolt Action heading the list for individual figures games (something I hope to change).

Having looked at announcements and reading between the lines I think Warlord will sell the WGF ranges that they don't make product for. So IMHO the end is nigh for ancients, zulu war and WW2 WFG figures.
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Re: Product Line-Up Changes at WGF due to Warlord

Postby wmyers » 14 Aug 2015, 18:57

zedeyejoe wrote:Ah thats the thing, these days you have a set of rules to sell your figures (the GW model).

So Warlord have Bolt Action and Battlefront Flames of War. About half of all WW2 games I see are Flames of War. The others a mix with Bolt Action heading the list for individual figures games (something I hope to change).

Having looked at announcements and reading between the lines I think Warlord will sell the WGF ranges that they don't make product for. So IMHO the end is nigh for ancients, zulu war and WW2 WFG figures.


And it is exactly those ranges (the ones Warlord does not make!) that they promoted through their announcement of the deal!

I wonder if Warlord will carry the DreamForge Games line? I would hope so as they are excellent figures, priced along their lines and do not compete with anything they have.


As for rules, there are literally tonnes of rules sets out there! If someone is not familiar with some of what is available, all one is has to do is quickly peruse this list: http://onmilitarymatters.com/pages/dfcatalog.php?period=0900

The thing is, people want others to play with, so whomever has that majority using their rules, the rest get shoved aside. Yes, the GW model. I am not saying the rules are not good, but there are many others. Heck, I personally like HG Wells' rules! I think they are fun and simple and quick - but too simple for most by today's standards.
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Re: Product Line-Up Changes at WGF due to Warlord

Postby zedeyejoe » 15 Aug 2015, 01:16

Ah yes rules. I think that was something that WGF was lacking, rules to go with and promote their figures. I think they tried something in ancients with Rob Broom. But there are some truly awful sets out there. Which I found when we were looking for a set to play WSS. One set that we bought seemed to have no rules for actually hurting the enemy!

On the subject of having people to play with, you don't really need more than one opponent to play against. What the rest of the world is doing is more or less irrelevant. Personally over 44 years of gaming I have played with some sets, put them aside and moved on to something else.
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